When I was a kid, my dad worked for a place that built log stackers, skidders and processors. They would get machines back that had been broken. Things like a log skidder ripped in half- the articulating joint was 12" 4340 solid and the broke it. The winches on the skidders and dozers had to have enough power and strength to rip the steel cable apart. 1" wire rope takes some pull to do that.
Any tips for honing?
- Thread starter Garwood
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Barbter
Well-known member
^^^^HolyMoly i don't think I'd wanna be in a 100 yard rad of these boys working!
Back when I did field service, one customer, proud that they had hired a “maintenance man”, assigned him to work with me on a ballscrew thrust bearing replacement job. This was a larger machine and the screw was about 3” diameter and 8’ long. The locknuts were pretty tight and as I was banging the first one loose the guy trots off and comes back pulling the acetylene wrench and offers to take over. After a quick “get that fucking thing away from this machine”, I ask what type maintenance he had done. Turned out he had only done heavy equipment repairs in hard rock quarry operations. The damages to equipment he described in a quarry sounds like the operators may have gotten their start on logging equipment.
Do you know what a yarder is? It's a huge portable tower with huge winches on it. massive wire ropes go off the top of the tower to strong backs across a valley and behind the yarder to tie it back. The strong backs are usually used up dozers and excavators that can still move, but are other wise useless. They bury them in a hole and tie off to them.
These yarders were mostly built in the 1940's and 1950's. They're huge with giant open gears.
When they were made they had some kind of flathead powerplant with 40HP probably.
The ones I know now have a turned up 3406B Cat with a 6 speed Allison automatic driving the winches.
Now imagine for a moment, using the carriage a 1/2 mile out to pick 30K lbs of logs and then running that 600HP engine full throttle with the transmission in overdrive 6th direct driving the winch pulling the carriage back. That's what these guys do. I know, because I make the 1810 drivelines with 3/4" wall tubing that drive the winches.
Barbter
Well-known member
^^^^ Okay Okay - I change my mind and say I definitely don't want to be within a 1000 yard radius!
Yes - now you have explained the kit, I have seen a program on Quest TV once on logging showing the exact setup you describe (american loggers?). Ice road trucker style - I watched a couple of episodes back a couple of years ago.
Scary stuff....gotta be an easier way to earn a living while keeping all your limbs....!
Yes - now you have explained the kit, I have seen a program on Quest TV once on logging showing the exact setup you describe (american loggers?). Ice road trucker style - I watched a couple of episodes back a couple of years ago.
Scary stuff....gotta be an easier way to earn a living while keeping all your limbs....!
atex57
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Some people are born not knowing any better. They become loggers. I know a few of them.^^^^ Okay Okay - I change my mind and say I definitely don't want to be within a 1000 yard radius!
Yes - now you have explained the kit, I have seen a program on Quest TV once on logging showing the exact setup you describe (american loggers?). Ice road trucker style - I watched a couple of episodes back a couple of years ago.
Scary stuff....gotta be an easier way to earn a living while keeping all your limbs....!
Ed
3.998" bore 19" deep. 1" shank Devlieg cartridge in a 3.5" solid arbor was by far the most rigid setup I could come up with. I took it from 3.5 to 3.95" in one pass. Finish pass was .002 DOC 400 RPM .006 ipr.
Boring mills are neat!
Will fire up the hone in the am.
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Sunnen AN-112 is a very nice tool! I used WD40 for lube. With AN-101 70 grit stones it took out .0015 in no time, maybe 15 seconds and 3 swipes in and out.
Finish is too rough for seals. I ordered some AN-301 220 stones and wipers to take out the last half thou and get the right finish for seals.
Finish is too rough for seals. I ordered some AN-301 220 stones and wipers to take out the last half thou and get the right finish for seals.
Sunnen actually have some really good PDFs available online about honing, you might want to grab those also. DF104 in particular if you're interested in finishes.
www.sunnen.com
Sunnen | Educational Information
www.sunnen.com
Barbter
Well-known member
I'm absolutely amazed that 15 secs took out a thou and a half.
But that is a roughazz grit you used.
Very nice boring work.
But that is a roughazz grit you used.
Very nice boring work.
I was surprised too. I set the tension pretty tight where the drill could just turn the hone. It was immediately loose. I gave it a little more tension, not as much as initially, ran it in and out briskly a time or two and then measured a few places. Got exact same measurements at front, middle and back.
Herding Cats
Hardplates
Honing will generally open the hole up very quickly at first when it is just cutting the peaks off the high spots and then slow down considerably once things even out. The starting surface finish will make a big difference in this effect.
That makes perfect sense. It took the peaks off real quick with those coarse stones.
220 stones put a nice finish in the bore. Probably 30 strokes to get to 4.000".
Honing with a rigid hone is neat. You can feel what's going on. It wasn't hard to keep the very bottom the same as the rest of the bore. I do think it would have been a lot harder if I'd left .010" or more. Less than .005" seems like a good goal to leave for honing.
Customer is very happy we could do it this way. Sounds like there will be many more of these.
Honing with a rigid hone is neat. You can feel what's going on. It wasn't hard to keep the very bottom the same as the rest of the bore. I do think it would have been a lot harder if I'd left .010" or more. Less than .005" seems like a good goal to leave for honing.
Customer is very happy we could do it this way. Sounds like there will be many more of these.
Just did another job kinda like this only 3.000" bore 6" deep. It was a struggle because it was a beat out pin bore. Off a Cat machine. Cat bushings are "harder than a preacher's dick at Sunday school" to quote the loggers. When the bushings are beat out you know where they go? Into the parent material! So you gotta bore through that shit.
I was always taught that boring heads with a bar mounted in them, are a good way to cut a bore. When you get into heavy HBM stuff, it seems as though boring heads are pretty much shit for this work. You can't have the boring head's slide way back at the spindle with a big bar sticking out and expect any kind of rigidity. Just doesn't work at all, even with a big 1.5" bar Criterion head in good shape. Just not rigid enough.
The more of these jobs I do, the more Devlieg cartridge tooling I buy. You can cut through ANYTHING with a Devlieg #7 or #10 indexable cartridge head in a solid bar.
Anyway, had some hard spots in the bore. Even though we bored 1/2" oversize and put 15 pounds of wire in the bore and faces there was still some leftover bushing material that percolated into the weld. So the bore wasn't perfect. That's where the hone came in.
Rigid hones are super handy. Anyone who doesn't have one or three needs to pick up a few with roughing and finishing stones. Makes life so much easier.
I was always taught that boring heads with a bar mounted in them, are a good way to cut a bore. When you get into heavy HBM stuff, it seems as though boring heads are pretty much shit for this work. You can't have the boring head's slide way back at the spindle with a big bar sticking out and expect any kind of rigidity. Just doesn't work at all, even with a big 1.5" bar Criterion head in good shape. Just not rigid enough.
The more of these jobs I do, the more Devlieg cartridge tooling I buy. You can cut through ANYTHING with a Devlieg #7 or #10 indexable cartridge head in a solid bar.
Anyway, had some hard spots in the bore. Even though we bored 1/2" oversize and put 15 pounds of wire in the bore and faces there was still some leftover bushing material that percolated into the weld. So the bore wasn't perfect. That's where the hone came in.
Rigid hones are super handy. Anyone who doesn't have one or three needs to pick up a few with roughing and finishing stones. Makes life so much easier.
Mud
Well-known member
If you like them, also look at Sandvik Vari-Set tools. They are like a deluxe version of the Devlieg tools
I've been watching since you had good success earlier in this thread. Thanks for the recommendation.