Mud
Well-known member
$$$$ for the Newbould, $325 for the boring head.
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Newbould indexer and nice small Bakuer boring head
- Thread starter Mud
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Mud
Well-known member
I don't think so. He did make a deal previously with whoever is making them now under the Newbould name. I think he got screwed on that and that's why he started back up himself and continued until his passing. I had a few conversations with him but didn't get the full story.
See the finish on that? If I understood him correctly that's ground, not lapped. How would you go about producing that finish?
See the finish on that? If I understood him correctly that's ground, not lapped. How would you go about producing that finish?
Barbter
Well-known member
I was always a bit perplexed by this device, and never understood all the threads on PM fawning over it.
What would you actually use it for and what's special about it?
Edit: it's obviously beautifully made, I'm curious about its practical value...
What would you actually use it for and what's special about it?
Edit: it's obviously beautifully made, I'm curious about its practical value...
I have the same feeling... Like that's neat, but why?
Never seen one, but my understanding is it's like a vernier system with stacked indexing elements enabling virtually any angle.
I remember RJ's story where he was surprised nobody thought of it before... Reading the story, I was too. Seems like the Indexerdesign that would come first before the geared type.
But like you said, geared is more practical for 99.9% of stuff.
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Mud
Well-known member
It's really a positioner/angle finder to replace a sine plate, not a rotary indexer. I was puzzled too until I had it in my hands. It's sold, went almost immediately on FB Marketplace for more than I listed here, guess I still didn't ask enough $ for it. I'll open it up and take a few photos before I pack it up.
The boring head appears to be sold also pending payment.
The boring head appears to be sold also pending payment.
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Jashley73
Well-known member
My understanding was that it was to replace gage-blocks and sin-bars somehow.
My favorite part of the story was him demonstrating to Starrett. They were setting random angles to show it's replacing of angle-gage blocks, when he made a silly comment to the then President, who took it like a champ.
My favorite part of the story was him demonstrating to Starrett. They were setting random angles to show it's replacing of angle-gage blocks, when he made a silly comment to the then President, who took it like a champ.
Pretty much what I assumed.
It's so rare that my sine bar comes out of its box anyway when I have the CMM sitting here... The market for these must be very small, no?
To be fair, I would probably buy it too, even just for it to look pretty on the shelf...
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Barbter
Well-known member
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Mud
Well-known member
More photos. I have another one that has a sliding wheel dresser mounted on it. This makes perfect sense. I bought the first one just to have it in my hand to examine. I figured it would be a nice sine bar replacement to dial in the table angle on my big Deckel. Sometimes you gotta stretch to justify your addiction to yourself, y'know? Then I found the dresser version and said That I'm gonna need! Someday! and suddenly had 2, figuring I'd sell the first one. That was 10 years ago at least. I dislike selling stuff so It's been in a tool cabinet ever since. I'm in the mood finally to turn clutter into dollars and rounding up things to sell, starting with items I've never used and don't need that are worth enough to justify the time and PITA involved to sell. Herding Cats relieved me of a few sizeable items a few weeks ago, thank you Paul!
The clever part of this gadget is that RJ left the full complement of teeth off the center molded plastic wheel. I think it needed an odd number of teeth or a partial tooth in order for the math to work, and that meant the teeth wouldn't engage each other correctly and no one ever worked out the solution to that problem. It finally occurred to him to just leave a segment of teeth out of the circle and it works. That's all detailed in his posts on PM. I can't remember the numbers exactly and I'm not counting them today. The result is the ability to dial in any angle to a precision of seconds in a few seconds with no other hardware. The pivot axis is between molded plastic parts and you have to loosen it all up to move anything so locating holes or similar would be pointless. The dresser has male and female round locators on the plastic parts to form a pivot which the indexer alone does not have.
The clever part of this gadget is that RJ left the full complement of teeth off the center molded plastic wheel. I think it needed an odd number of teeth or a partial tooth in order for the math to work, and that meant the teeth wouldn't engage each other correctly and no one ever worked out the solution to that problem. It finally occurred to him to just leave a segment of teeth out of the circle and it works. That's all detailed in his posts on PM. I can't remember the numbers exactly and I'm not counting them today. The result is the ability to dial in any angle to a precision of seconds in a few seconds with no other hardware. The pivot axis is between molded plastic parts and you have to loosen it all up to move anything so locating holes or similar would be pointless. The dresser has male and female round locators on the plastic parts to form a pivot which the indexer alone does not have.
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Mud
Well-known member
Photos
I imagine the small shelf with a fence on the end is to clamp small items to to surface grind, or the holes in the face could be use to attach fixtures or a magnetic chuck maybe. The casting is beautiful, every detail is perfect, even the box is extraordinary.
I imagine the small shelf with a fence on the end is to clamp small items to to surface grind, or the holes in the face could be use to attach fixtures or a magnetic chuck maybe. The casting is beautiful, every detail is perfect, even the box is extraordinary.
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Barbter
Well-known member
Even the box is lovely!
mach ramsey mn
Active member
Nothin like a nice box!
Mud
Well-known member
Do you notice the 2 element catch on the box? Very secure, I felt confident carrying it by the handle.
Clearly I should have asked for more money.
BTW he made real spin fixtures like Grindalls that included this indexing device, they would deserve the indexer name.
Clearly I should have asked for more money.
BTW he made real spin fixtures like Grindalls that included this indexing device, they would deserve the indexer name.
You can get a finish like that grinding with a high grit wheel, but you really have to barely dust anything off or it's burn city. RJ did very fine quality work. If any of you haven't read his series of posts at PM regarding his development of the idea and attempts to sell it before deciding to make them himself, you ought to. It's a great read.
Even with the brushed concrete segments in my Blanchard I can get a near mirror finish in hard toolsteel when I let it spark out for 10 minutes.
Jashley73
Well-known member
I still can't fully understand how it works, but I do get the principle, roughly.
When I was reading the story, it was clear very early on how well-experienced a craftsman RJ was. He did die-making, mold-making, general machine work, and on & on...
It was out of his craft that the indexer was conceptualized and born. I suspect that one reason a lot of us don't see an apparent need for the indexer, is simply due to the fact that we don't spend as much time with intricate grinding, presumably like RJ did over his career. As CNC milling and hard-milling continue to advance, the need for grinding continues to dwindle...
When I was reading the story, it was clear very early on how well-experienced a craftsman RJ was. He did die-making, mold-making, general machine work, and on & on...
It was out of his craft that the indexer was conceptualized and born. I suspect that one reason a lot of us don't see an apparent need for the indexer, is simply due to the fact that we don't spend as much time with intricate grinding, presumably like RJ did over his career. As CNC milling and hard-milling continue to advance, the need for grinding continues to dwindle...
mach ramsey mn
Active member
Don’t hold your breath on grinding, they keep one step ahead of hard turning/milling move the decimal point better abrasives, better tool management….
Remember (well you probably don’t) when Hexapods were all of the rage, if you didn’t have one of these in the next 3 years you would be out of business!!! lol!
Well Gene Haas and every other manufacturer has sold plenty of c-frame VMC’s since then.
Remember (well you probably don’t) when Hexapods were all of the rage, if you didn’t have one of these in the next 3 years you would be out of business!!! lol!
Well Gene Haas and every other manufacturer has sold plenty of c-frame VMC’s since then.
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