Speedio speeds/feeds in steel and stainless
- Thread starter LOTT
- Start date
I would think on 1018 and 4140 (ph or no?) just regular old coated endmills would be fine, probably with chip breakers for roughing. Not much experience with stainless so I dunno about that. Have air blast or TSC? I always liked TiCN and similar with air blast for "steels".
So many coatings now, might want to get with a tool rep and see what they recommend per your type of steel/needs.
So many coatings now, might want to get with a tool rep and see what they recommend per your type of steel/needs.
Herding Cats
Hardplates
No experience with 30 taper but most of the tools I run in steels and SS are AlCrN coated.
It is my understanding that Al is one of the hardest coatings. The Ti is just used to get it to bond to the carbide. AlTiN is harder than TiAlN since it has more Aluminum in it. I think Cr does everything Ti does but does it better which is why you tend to see it on higher performance tools.
Another thing to look for, which often isn't advertised is a standard primary secondary relief angle vs a eccentric/radial relief. The eccentric relief makes for a stronger cutting edge which becomes more apparent with more difficult to work with materials like 300 series stainless and heat resistant super alloys with lots of nickle.
Also it is my understanding that the main weekness of a 30 taper is retention force. That said I would compare that to when I pull tools out of holders. One of the biggest causes of pullout for me is high helix angles, so I would limit their use to light low hp finish cuts. Not really relivent but I am talking about pulling tools out of milling chucks, not collets.
It is my understanding that Al is one of the hardest coatings. The Ti is just used to get it to bond to the carbide. AlTiN is harder than TiAlN since it has more Aluminum in it. I think Cr does everything Ti does but does it better which is why you tend to see it on higher performance tools.
Another thing to look for, which often isn't advertised is a standard primary secondary relief angle vs a eccentric/radial relief. The eccentric relief makes for a stronger cutting edge which becomes more apparent with more difficult to work with materials like 300 series stainless and heat resistant super alloys with lots of nickle.
Also it is my understanding that the main weekness of a 30 taper is retention force. That said I would compare that to when I pull tools out of holders. One of the biggest causes of pullout for me is high helix angles, so I would limit their use to light low hp finish cuts. Not really relivent but I am talking about pulling tools out of milling chucks, not collets.
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Mhajicek
Active member
30 taper should work pretty well with high feed cutters then, since they push up.
Just curious, I've never used a milling chuck, but if you are pulling tools out, what is their purpose? I always thought they were the "high end" collet thingy?
Herding Cats
Hardplates
They do hold tighter than collets as well as less run out. Pull out with milling chucks isn't a super common issue for me. It generally happens using a long 3/4" endmill in a 3/4" accupro chuck. Switching to a 1 1/4" chuck with a reducing collet solves the issue. Switching to a pricier Nikken chuck will also fix it.
I have to get pretty aggressive to pull tools out and don't run into it with smaller carbide like 1/2"
Someone I know has a shop that does huge areospace hogouts with machines well over 100hp. I discussed pull out with him and he told me that shirinks actually hold even tighter than chucks.
I try to limit use of collet holders. When pushing endmills hard in steel, stainless, exc the better concentricy of chucks and shirk make a pretty big differenece in tool life. The harder you push the more apparent the tool life difference becomes.
Mhajicek
Active member
I use shrink for anything I'm going to run hard. Love'em.
Hmm... probably something we did wrong, but using a 5/8 (or 16mm) shrink fit we were pulling endmills out roughing in an Inegrex, C6 capto, alum material.... I've always been a sidelock guy for roughing. Collets ok for finishing, and not so heavy roughing. BUT I haven't been on anything harder than brass in years.
I do one job almost constantly in 17-4ph. I use coated tools from Mari-Tool, hsm tools paths. This job uses small tools, one is 1/4" 5 fl. I special ordered a bunch with .02 corner radius and they last a lot longer. IIRC I step over 10 to 12 percent, and actually run about 2X the suggested sf. I'll try to look it up tomorrow and edit.
I use almost all side locks, and the shortest holder possible.
I use almost all side locks, and the shortest holder possible.
Spruewell
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I have been curious too about the rigidity and holding power of the 30 taper spindles. I know the salesmen always say they are every bit as good as the 40 tapers, but I’m a bit skeptical. Does anyone have experience with side by side comparison of the two?
I had the Haas machines (all 40 taper), got a Robo (30BBT), then went strongly into Brother. Two are 30, and two are 30BBT. I've had zero limitations going from 40 to 30. maybe if I'd gonefrom a heavier/more rigid 40 taper, or had different work, that might make a difference. I did start using more HSM paths when I need to remove more material. My cycle times have all gone down for the same parts, and tool life has improved. Life is also easier, with pretty much zero down time. The machines weren't free, that's the only drawback.
Getting the same amount of work done in less time is quite useful to me. Since cancer and chemo in 2018, my energy is about 50 percent what it was before that wonderful experience. Taking 50 percent out of the cycle time makes life a lot easier. A little off-topic: I'll have to figure out what to do with these gorgeous machines when I retire in a few years. Hopefully the market will recognize how good the Brother stuff really is at that time.
Of course there are jobs that will need a larger, more rigid 40 or even 50 taper. Just depends on the jobs.
Good luck!
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We should be ready for a pallet changer by then, right now the two S500's are eating everything we throw at them.
Once I got a 450, I thought "why didn't I do this before?" I have a 450 HT BBT and then a standard 10K version. They are very useful. Also a 500 and 700.
Horses for courses. On our standard BT-30 machines I know a 3/8" end mill will break off without damaging the holder or spindle, so in my mind the taper is not a limitation. I can go as fast and heavy as the tool can handle, and the extra speed over a 40 taper machine is all bonus.
If you have long tool stick outs or are roughing out mold cavities it might be a different story.
And it may just be perception, but I feel like it is just easier to set up and get running on the Brothers. My experience is fairly limited, just Haas, Fanuc, and Brother, but I really like the way they work.