I bought a Makino today...

[Garwood]

I wish I could say it was a brand new one, but that's not my style.

I made an offer to buy this machine from Vancbiker's former employer about a year ago, but they turned it down. I guess they also had an offer 3 times what I offered and they turned that down too. Well, last week they called me back and said they need it gone and they'd like to discuss it. I told them I wasn't so interested because I already bought a machine for the work I had, but I'd think about it. Well, Vancbiker talked me into it, I was on the fence until he brought up the scales on all 4 axis.

Anyway, I have to take out a wall of my shop to get it in so it's going to be about a month before it shows up, but I'm going to be the proud new owner of an antique 1989 Makino MC-40 HMC. It only has a 7K 10HP spindle, you can catch a nap while it changes a tool and the coolant pump needs to be 10 times bigger, but it does have the old Cadillac Fanuc 15 control and it has scales on X.Y.Z and B. The big selling point is the condition though. I have never seen another used machine in as nice of condition period. You could eat off any part of it. No leaks, no dings, no scratches. It is like it was in 1989. The spindle sounds like new. It has a sort of quick pallet change, maybe that will make up some for a sleepy toolchanger.

I get zero tooling with it, I will have to buy all new Cat40 stuff for it as all I have in 40 taper is BT, but I have four really nice 400mm tombstones that I've had squirreled away. I knew this day would come.

I'm probably a fool for not spending a bit more to buy an A55 or the SH400 Mori I was looking at. I guess we'll find out.

 

[Herding Cats]

As I'm sure Kevin told you, finding a horizontal that hasn't run production it's whole life is very difficult. Even if it is slow it should be a cool machine.

 

[Garwood]

As I'm sure Kevin told you, finding a horizontal that hasn't run production it's whole life is very difficult. Even if it is slow it should be a cool machine.

Yeah, no kidding. I had a 300MM Kitamura HMC and it was beat. It had .003" gone off mid travel in the Z axis ways, way covers had been replaced several times, it had new Turcite and several new spindles over it's life.

I've had plenty of run into the ground POS machines, most of them still made money. Only thing wrong with this Makino is it's age. I have seen a few of these old Makino's in shops still running well, that have run production forever, especially the larger ones.

I spent 3 hours going over the machine today and spoke with half a dozen people who ran and cared for it. Every one of them said it was one of the most accurate machines they had and that, if they had the means, they'd put it in their home shop/garage in a heartbeat. The accuracy statement was kinda beat home by the newer Yasda right next to it.

 

[Herding Cats]

Could have a 64 bit RISC engine

There were oodles of options available to the 15, even the model A. I don't know when they went from A to B but if I had to guess 89 would be an A

 

[Garwood]

Could have a 64 bit RISC engine

There were oodles of options available to the 15, even the model A. I don't know when they went from A to B but if I had to guess 89 would be an A

I was researching the A/B timeline and found NOTHING on it. I would think it's an A though. I believe this machine has a 512k memory, but it can go to 2 meg. Getting that extra memory might be handy, I could see programs getting big on this thing.

 

[Herding Cats]

There were all kinds of remote buffer options as well as ethernet on the model A.

When you get it, if you want send me the option parameters and some pictures of the boards and I can help you get an idea of what you have.

 

[Vancbiker]

I’m pretty sure the control is plain jane 15MA. It was a really nice machine at the time I retired (8+years ago). Like you said, toolchanges are napworthy. It was a super accurate machine. It spent at least half its life running with cutting oil instead of coolant. I entertained buying myself for quite a while and if I had room in my shop, would have. In general, that shop is one of the finest in the NW. The founder always had an appreciation for fine machine tools. Made it nice to work there and have pretty much all top grade machinery around.

When I went to work there they had a Fadal that came with a shop they had bought out. I made it a condition of my employment that I could sell that. They agreed.

 

[Garwood]

When I went to work there they had a Fadal that came with a shop they had bought out. I made it a condition of my employment that I could sell that. They agreed.

LMAO!

I got the full tour today (well, of the lower 100,000 square feet) and I did not see a non-premium Japanese machine in the lot.

And they really care for the stuff. Been in a lot of huge aero shops and they aren't very clean or tidy. This place is very clean, very organized and machines are kept nice.

 

[Garwood]

A big name in aftermarket auto parts called me today to ask about dealer pricing and available quantity for a product I've been selling for 9 years. It's never done as well as I figured it would, but I was also a bit concerned of how I'd keep up with it if it did take off.

I don't think timing could be better for a pallet changing HMC.

Feels like a "build it and they will come" moment lol.

 

[Garwood]

Interesting side note- I have always focused my automotive stuff on parts that are not emissions related and specialized in older, non-epa controlled platforms.

I have heard stories of the EPA targeting those that do otherwise and today I heard a first hand account of how the EPA showed up in force and gutted the core of a major business.

Part of their re-grouping after an EPA gut is to re-focus on older platforms. So happens that puts my stuff in the limelight.

Thanks EPA!

 

[Vancbiker]

LMAO!

I got the full tour today (well, of the lower 100,000 square feet) and I did not see a non-premium Japanese machine in the lot.......

You missed out on about 70k square feet of manufacturing and inventory (shipping/receiving) on the top floor. Assembly (mechanical, hardware, electrical, plumbing, etc.) painting and powdercoating, part marking and so on. The other 30k is offices, lunch room, kitchen, etc.

 

[Herding Cats]

You missed out on about 70k square feet of manufacturing and inventory (shipping/receiving) on the top floor. Assembly (mechanical, hardware, electrical, plumbing, etc.) painting and powdercoating, part marking and so on. The other 30k is offices, lunch room, kitchen, etc.

Pfttttt....they aint got nothing on this one man circus

 

[Garwood]

You missed out on about 70k square feet of manufacturing and inventory (shipping/receiving) on the top floor. Assembly (mechanical, hardware, electrical, plumbing, etc.) painting and powdercoating, part marking and so on. The other 30k is offices, lunch room, kitchen, etc.

I asked where the anodizing was and who to talk to, They explained that was in an entire separate building.

The chiller loop was pretty neat too. Cool all the machines and the entire building.

 

[Vancbiker]

Anodizing is at the location of the original plant. When we moved to the new building it was decided that the cost of building a new facility and permitting for the wastewater did not pencil out.

The other infrastructure thing that was awesome is the air system. Total of 210HP worth of compressors. Control system that turned them on and off based on need. >2000 gallons in 2 receiver tanks and distributed with a primary loop of 4" copper pipe >1300 feet in length.

6000 amps of 480V 3 phase power total in 2 banks of 3000 amps each.

 

[AJ H]

Garwood: I know you have talked in the past about moving big stuff cheap but what about 40k HMCs? Same method? Drag it up a Landoll? I assume you need something bigger/better than ebay skates at this point. Will a toe jack still pick each corner? Do you put something extra down to keep the skates from blowing through the trailer deck? Is a modest fork truck a big enough tugboat to get the machine to the door?

Big place somewhat local to me is having an auction next month and they have a Mori HMC, (4) relatively new OKK HMCs, and (3) Makino A77s. I assume that the weight and redundancy of similar machines is going to drive the price down a lot. There's lower hanging fruit for me to throw time and money at right now but the opportunity to drag home a money printing press in my back yard has my wheels turning.

 

[Garwood]

Yes, a 2 axle landoll can handle atleast 50k lbs. A 3 axle can go to 70k.

Landolls have a heavy I-beam spine that sits flush with the apitong deck. I run the skates on the beams or i lay strips of 10g 304 down to roll on the wood.

I have a set of the large size Hilmans. They can be complicated, but Hilmans are indestructible and can manuever very well. My skates will start leaving tracks in concrete when theres more than 15k per skate. The real fancy steerable HKS and similar skates work well on simple moves on smooth floors, but they lack clearance for approach and departure angles to get on and off a Landoll.

Any forklift can push or pull any machine on skates. Under 20k lbs you can push by hand.

I have lots of toe jacks. More than a dozen. Plus a load of enerpac stuff. Heavy jacks will wear your ass out moving them and sometimes you need a special size or configuration to squeak in a tight place. At a minimum you need a toe jack that is rated for half the machines weight, that goes down low enough to get under the casting.

The shop I'm buying the Makino from was first adament that i hire riggers, but i said no deal and explained the machine was never going to leave the ground the way Id do it. Once I explained the process they were totally on board.

I should be moving the Makino by the end of the month. I was told no pictures in the plant, but I will ask if i can take some of the rigging. If they say yes I'll show how it's done.

Makino A77 is an incredible machine. They're 45k lbs and large footprint. 3 point level is awesome though.

 

[alan speyrer]

This thread is useless without pictures

 

[Garwood]

Moving day is set for next Thursday. Sold my Takisawa mill and Mori SL2H lathe so there will be a ton of room for this little Makino HMC.

 

[Herding Cats]

Moving day is set for next Thursday. Sold my Takisawa mill and Mori SL2H lathe so there will be a ton of room for this little Makino HMC.

the taco salad?

 

[Garwood]

the taco salad?

Yep. The little salad shooter is moving on. I thought I was keeping it, but a guy came out last night and bought it. Which is fine with me. Plan is to spend every penny in the piggy bank on Cat40 toolholders and material for fixtures and parts to run through the Makino.

I don't remember ever being so excited about a machine. I can't stop designing fixtures in my head. It sounds absurd to be so excited over such an old little HMC, but the MC-40 is perfect for me. If it was a newer bigger faster A55 or SH400 I'd be struggling to power it and I'd have paid 3 times more for it. Every part I make that isn't perfect for this MC-40 is a perfect fit for my big Kitamura VMC. Every part that's a bit small for a 50 taper beast is perfect size for the MC-40. The SL2 I sold I only needed for one part made from 2.5" 6061 tubing. That part has a mill op and now that I have an HMC I can use a form tool and run it in a single op on an expanding mandrel fixture in the HMC.

As long as it's reliable that's all that matters. I fully expect to have to fix things now and then, but hopefully buying a creampuff means there will be less of that stuff.