I bought a Makino today...
- Thread starter Garwood
- Start date
Mud
Well-known member
You sure are a capable guy Garwood. Well done.
What's missing here is all thenegative comments from wannabes advising you on how to do it "right". This board is a nice refuge from the www. Posts like yours are refreshing.
What's missing here is all thenegative comments from wannabes advising you on how to do it "right". This board is a nice refuge from the www. Posts like yours are refreshing.
Mr. M
Active member
I am amazed by a few of the members here. I work at a small Aerospace shop and have a small "hobby" shop of my own and folks like @Garwood @Herding Cats and others motivate me to tackle projects I had previously been to intimidated to do. (So now I have a VMC spindle sitting in a box that we are going to try and rebuild in house
)Thanks, I appreciate the compliments!
I have made lots of mistakes. I jumped into self employment at 23 without a clue what I was doing. I'm 39 now. I think it's that experience of bootstrapping from absolutely nothing that helps me take on projects some might not. I don't take the kind of risks in business I used to. Having more to lose changes your mindset in that regard.
In my 20's I figured out what I was good at and, it took awhile, but I eventually figured out the purpose of being in business needs to be to make a profit and that you can't make much of a business without a sound business plan.
I have never been diagnosed, but I'm 110% positive I have ADHD. It's a blessing and a curse because it can get me into some tricky situations, but the same backwards thought processes can usually get me back out again. I think the biggest success of my 30's has been to realize that I do think differently from others and manage to avoid the pitfalls of distractions while learning how to direct my hyper-focusing on things that matter.
I have a lot of experience rigging machines because it was the only way I could afford them. I'd jump into a deal on a big machine and just "figure out" how to move it. I also have experience fixing them for the same reason.
I have made lots of mistakes. I jumped into self employment at 23 without a clue what I was doing. I'm 39 now. I think it's that experience of bootstrapping from absolutely nothing that helps me take on projects some might not. I don't take the kind of risks in business I used to. Having more to lose changes your mindset in that regard.
In my 20's I figured out what I was good at and, it took awhile, but I eventually figured out the purpose of being in business needs to be to make a profit and that you can't make much of a business without a sound business plan.
I have never been diagnosed, but I'm 110% positive I have ADHD. It's a blessing and a curse because it can get me into some tricky situations, but the same backwards thought processes can usually get me back out again. I think the biggest success of my 30's has been to realize that I do think differently from others and manage to avoid the pitfalls of distractions while learning how to direct my hyper-focusing on things that matter.
I have a lot of experience rigging machines because it was the only way I could afford them. I'd jump into a deal on a big machine and just "figure out" how to move it. I also have experience fixing them for the same reason.
Weekly update:
Machine is leveled. 3 point leveling should be mandatory on all machine tools. In under 2 minutes, by myself, with a pair of Starrett 199's I had this machine dead nuts level. Absurdly easy.
Toolchanger is bolted to floor, but not aligned yet. The alignment looks like it will be loads of fun (not).
My scissor lift is a 2008 and I've been nursing failing batteries for years. They have finally totally died. The JLG lift uses four GC2 6V golf cart batteries. Interestingly, there is currently a nationwide shortage of GC2 batteries. WTF? Once I get batteries in the scissor lift I can run power to the Makino, fire it up and start aligning the toolchanger.
I ordered up 30 new 8620 pullstuds from Nodicor. Never tried these guys, but their prices are good and they look like they've been making pullstuds forever.
I don't know what Cat40 tooling I need for the Makino yet as I'm not sure how close the spindle gets to my fixtures yet (need to power it up to measure that). I have been window shopping used toolholders on Ebay and used cat40 selection is pretty bad. It's either hammered looking or Chinese. I spose that's the downside to having the same taper everyone else does. I have found a few used premium brand Cat40 lots I could probably use. They are auctions with a day to go and I'm too cheap to spend much on tooling I don't actually need so we will see if I get any of it.
Anyone use shrink tooling without a shrink machine? Is that just asking for a nightmare or is it manageable with a bit of common sense?
Machine is leveled. 3 point leveling should be mandatory on all machine tools. In under 2 minutes, by myself, with a pair of Starrett 199's I had this machine dead nuts level. Absurdly easy.
Toolchanger is bolted to floor, but not aligned yet. The alignment looks like it will be loads of fun (not).
My scissor lift is a 2008 and I've been nursing failing batteries for years. They have finally totally died. The JLG lift uses four GC2 6V golf cart batteries. Interestingly, there is currently a nationwide shortage of GC2 batteries. WTF? Once I get batteries in the scissor lift I can run power to the Makino, fire it up and start aligning the toolchanger.
I ordered up 30 new 8620 pullstuds from Nodicor. Never tried these guys, but their prices are good and they look like they've been making pullstuds forever.
I don't know what Cat40 tooling I need for the Makino yet as I'm not sure how close the spindle gets to my fixtures yet (need to power it up to measure that). I have been window shopping used toolholders on Ebay and used cat40 selection is pretty bad. It's either hammered looking or Chinese. I spose that's the downside to having the same taper everyone else does. I have found a few used premium brand Cat40 lots I could probably use. They are auctions with a day to go and I'm too cheap to spend much on tooling I don't actually need so we will see if I get any of it.
Anyone use shrink tooling without a shrink machine? Is that just asking for a nightmare or is it manageable with a bit of common sense?
AJ H
Active member
I’ve had good luck using the wives tale beyer aspirin trick to bring back batteries but you may be beyond that. We use a propane torch to use shrink fit holders and then cool with air nozzle
Just won an Ebay auction for 10 like new 4" projection Nikken SK10 holders for $220. Should cover a lot of the drills, taps and threadmills under 10mm. I use several Cat50 SK10 holders in my Kitamura and they seem pretty nice. Collet cost is higher than ER, but I haven't had anything slip and runout seems super.
Herding Cats
Hardplates
I swear by shrinkers. Collets are pretty useless to me for endmills cause they always pull out. I'm sure if I backed things down a little they would work but slowing down doesn't make more money.
I use 2 MAPP gas torches and it works fine. Only downfall is it takes about 1 min to heat up to get a tool out.
A friend of mine is waiting for a new shrink machine and I'm hoping to buy his backup when the time comes.
So yes you can use a torch but after a while you will fall in love with shrink tooling and end up buying a machine. A torch is a good way to start tho.
Thanks!
When I figure out what projections I need I think I will order shrinks for all the endmills.
I like to use set screw holders for endmills and on size drills. Never had an endmill move with a tiny notch ground in the shank, but shrink seems like it would be the best provided I can change the tools.
For the past 5 years or so I've done all my steel stuff on 50 taper machines. Now that I have a big demand for a product comprised of small steel parts the big 50 taper VMC is not the ideal tool and why I bought the Makino. I don't know how different 40 taper is going to be from what I'm used to programming so I want to keep projection and runout down best I can. Most material removal will be with 3/16, 1/4 and 5/8" stubby endmills. Parts are milled from 3/8" A36 so I only need to finish about .300 height after chamfers.
When I figure out what projections I need I think I will order shrinks for all the endmills.
I like to use set screw holders for endmills and on size drills. Never had an endmill move with a tiny notch ground in the shank, but shrink seems like it would be the best provided I can change the tools.
For the past 5 years or so I've done all my steel stuff on 50 taper machines. Now that I have a big demand for a product comprised of small steel parts the big 50 taper VMC is not the ideal tool and why I bought the Makino. I don't know how different 40 taper is going to be from what I'm used to programming so I want to keep projection and runout down best I can. Most material removal will be with 3/16, 1/4 and 5/8" stubby endmills. Parts are milled from 3/8" A36 so I only need to finish about .300 height after chamfers.
Finally some forward momentum! Local Napa was the only source I could get the GC2 batteries from. The jumpers between batteries were junk. I ordered new ones from mcmasters. Jumpers and batteries together were about $600. I should have done it a couple years ago. What a difference!
Hopefully turn the power on shortly here. I'm really disappointed in Ebay sellers lately. I sell on Ebay and ship 100% of what I sell same day if they buy before 4PM. It isn't that hard to do. I bought 3 lots of decent looking Cat40 toolholders, about 20 altogether on or about the 10th. You think they'd ship the stuff within a couple days? Nope. Finally got them to ship a week late after asking nicely when I could expect my stuff. Then I get a message from one of them that they "lost 3 of the toolholders" so they refunded me some money. Some people are just too damn weird. I just want a couple toolholders so I can line up the toolchanger.
Jergens Hydraulic Fixture tomb | eBay
Jergens Hydraulic Fixture tomb. these are fully functional Jergens Hydraulic work holding tombs with a 400 mm bolt pattern.
www.ebay.com
Can anyone tell me anything about what I just bought? I think the auction was for the pair of them. Not sure.
Mud
Well-known member
They look 3 sided which is neat, gives you more clearance. I make my own jaws of my older M series pin style Chicks, newer chicks require a form relieved cutter to make the jaws. Those look you should be able to make your own w/o too much trouble.
Turns out the real price is $2500 cash for four of these picked up. Sounds pretty good, but I'm thinking I need more part density than these vises can offer. I could probably buy all four and get all my money back selling two, but I dont think these vises are the right workholding direction for me.
My two primary parts that will be run on this Makino are 1.5"x3.5"x.375" and 1.5"x8"x.75" steel.
I could only do 6 or 12 parts per tombstone with these vises. I'd be smarter to build fixtures and run 50+ parts per stone for a long run time. I'm just a one man shop.
My two primary parts that will be run on this Makino are 1.5"x3.5"x.375" and 1.5"x8"x.75" steel.
I could only do 6 or 12 parts per tombstone with these vises. I'd be smarter to build fixtures and run 50+ parts per stone for a long run time. I'm just a one man shop.
Mud
Well-known member
That is cheap. You can use them as tombstones, make a one piece slab that clamps on where the jaws go, makes them quick to install and remove just like the jaws are, and bolt your fixtures to the slabs.
Mud
Well-known member
FWIW I sold a single 6" four sided Chick for $2200 almost 10 years ago. With jaws. It was an obsolete model.
I really like the idea to run them jawless with fixture plates on top. I do have other parts that would fit well in double vises. Tombstones that do vises and fixtures would cover all my bases hmmm...
Mud
Well-known member
They look hydraulic. I believe that adds dramatically to the cost. Looking at Jergen's site, they offer the solid plates. Some call them pallets. The design looks good, the retention features are all below the bottom of the jaw, that means you can use the entire volume of the jaw for pockets without hitting the clamping device. Requires a larger piece of raw material, but the jaw can be thinner if the height is not needed. On mine the clamping device sticks up into the jaw and that's a PITA.
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I've gone through the Jergens site a bit. I found all the jaw information and found the mechanical version of these tombstones, but not the hydraulic ones. Looks like the mechanical version is $8k a piece.
I will look through the Jergens site again for the solid top plates. Did you find them in the section with jaws or somewhere else?
Thanks!
I will look through the Jergens site again for the solid top plates. Did you find them in the section with jaws or somewhere else?
Thanks!