Mud
Well-known member
Local production shop has several HMCs with pallet pools, they run 3 shifts, machines last about 3 years. They quit buying Moris completely, because the service experience was so bad. All Mazak now.
Anti Haas bashers
- Thread starter Mike1974
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Oldwrench
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Maybe they cut 'em loose as soon as the way covers wear out?
Mud
Well-known member
No, just aluminum and steel. They do parts for AMGeneral, HD, Chrysler, Beretta, etc. They put 10-15,000+ spindle hours on then sell them. Usually they are starting to need excessive service, not because of the machine quality but because of harsh treatment leading to loose tolerances. I saw a photo of a toolholder incident, they couldn't find a holder that disappeared from the machine spindle. After a few hours they found it in another machine, it broke both windows and crossed the aisle. Mazak service would show up and fix what was needed, the Mori guys would take forever to show up then not have the tools or skills to do the repair, and couldn't get the parts shipped. FWIW I'm hearing this 2nd hand from the plant manager who used to be my shop manager.
Owner was also pissed at Mori for things like selling him a HMC with full 4th axis. It only indexed in 1° and they needed .01° to make the parts.
Owner was also pissed at Mori for things like selling him a HMC with full 4th axis. It only indexed in 1° and they needed .01° to make the parts.
Mud
Well-known member
And yes they've spent plenty on way covers.
Thankfully Fanuc, Mitsu, Yaskawa don’t care if third parties repair old boards or engineer replacements. Allows folks with good old iron keep it going long term. One cool thing about Fanuc is they will still support most everything they ever made. It’s very expensive and I doubt there are few takers but they do it. I was helping a little startup shop a couple years ago with some trouble with a 35 year old Fanuc 11M control. Fanuc had a replacement on the shelf. It was $3500 so went on the web and got a takeout from a machine being scrapped for ~$450 shipped. While at it also picked up a 512k memory board for $150 and put it all back together. Sometime later they showed me some Ti parts they were running. They were interpolating a 1” diameter round boss and holding better than .0005” roundness. Pretty darn good for a 35 year old machine that they paid more to get rigged into their shop than they paid for the machine.
Plastikdreams
Well-known member
I started on haas machines, I love the control and the machines are plenty capable as well. I've used other machines, and really its the control that really shines on the haas. Why they don't allow other mtb's to integrate and use their controls is beyond me. I mean really does anyone actually want a fanuc control? They can shove their hard and soft keys up their ass sideways. Hardest stuff I've cut in the past on a haas was carpenter c 465...by hard I don't mean Rockwell I mean hard to machine, if you looked at it the wrong way it would instantly turn to glass and that was it, start over lol. I held tenths in that stuff though. It's a Cr Mo Ni Ti shitshow. The hardest I've machined is superalloy turbine blades and again was able to hold tight tolerances.
We currently have 3 mini mills at work that are fed a steady diet of nickle superalloy parts 3 shifts a day...and they have been doing so for years. We just got some 4 and 5 axis moris and they have had more problems than a little. The haas machines just keep singing away. Although one is down for repairs, I believe it needs a new ballscrew.
We currently have 3 mini mills at work that are fed a steady diet of nickle superalloy parts 3 shifts a day...and they have been doing so for years. We just got some 4 and 5 axis moris and they have had more problems than a little. The haas machines just keep singing away. Although one is down for repairs, I believe it needs a new ballscrew.
I don't know the details. It was Sequoia CNC, IIRC. they were selling some ooff the shelf type maintenance items I was looking for, and I think they were repairing boards. All of a sudden they were just gone from the interwebz. Really sucked, as that was about the time Haas prices went up and service quality went down, at least in my case.
I know a guy hear in Az that has good success with fixing hass boards, I believe wheelieking used him once or twice as well.
Garwood. heres a parts list that you were curious about and I had some time
.my hass is a 2009 vf2ss, had it since new.
heres the parts it required.
2 spindles in the 1st week. (warrenty) still wasnt fixed right spindles been iffy from day one they told me to f-off no kidding)
3 mocon boards in the 1st year (warrenty)
2 or 3 years out of warrenty a spindle drive went out they also replaced another mocon but didnt charge me for it cause they said that wasnt the problem after all.
when the tech was working on the spindle drive he shorted out the 4xis drive with his screw driver., we fired everything up after seeing the flash except the 4th axis drive (stupid me) but I believe the mocon was bad not the spindle thats why he replaced the mocon and didnt charge me. I think he shorted the spindle drive with that big flash in the back.
a few years ago the batt went out( I never saw a batt alarm) so we had to get all the prms reinstalled and the dual batt kit.
then I had to replace a few tool change solenoids.
the spindle gets warm so I still run it at 12k all day everyday but with one coolant line hitting the spindle nose/case stays cool after 10 hours of running)
surfacing jobs for the 1st 8+ years 1-8 hour programs spindle ran always at 12k
one fadal I had since 2001 (its a 96 4020)
Spindle drive on day one( company replaced underwarrenty down for 1.5 months lot of fighting to get it, I ended up driving to CA walked in the shop with tools took one right out of a running machine and drove back to az yup even threatened to hurt anyone who stopped me)
replaced a y axis motor
couple of air valves
couple of air cylinders
a pair of belts every year face mill mist kills them
about 4 years ago new spindle drive(replaced the baldor)
2-3 years ago all new thrust bearings
new drawbar washers
last fall a power supply(its a pc power supply)
paid to get it ball barred and running like new(500 bucks)
the thing holds under a thou all day long just finish is close to 63 but not quite.
Going to put a new spindle in it and all new pulleys and tensioners.
Ran from when we bought it in 2001 to 2017 all day everyday surfacing
2nd fadal got last year
new tool disc spindle
new draw bar assembly needs a y axis ballscrew but we still hold a thou all day every day.
I'll probably put in a new spindle tensioners and pulley this year as well.
my 2 jap (88 miyano and citizen)lathes bought used sitting for 2 years.
both had power supplys go out.
got a ghost in the miyano but no solution yet runs fine when its in a good mood.
couple of relays in the miyano taht were sticking (one of the ghost)
lost some prms in both do to batts
got a slant 50 88
one power supply and all the halleffect switchs ( I replaced them all just in case)
all three lathes hold tenths all day long. havent ran the lathes in about 8 months they will be running by weeks end.
up until last year they were running all day everyday on bar feed jobs un attended during working hours
I dotn understand the control issue that some people have. I have fanuc hass and yasnac.
I finger bang all the lathes quick and easy even with live tooling work and complex jobs
on the mills I generally run everything with cad and really dont touch the control unless I need to modify a program.
except for drill and tap cycles I dont use any canned cycles in the mills. one canned cycle I like is on the haas and use it for id work if I need to fix something the g13. I also have it in my post/code generator as well. but no other canned cycles.
Ive runn about every control out there except mazak in 30+ years
I finger bang all the lathes quick and easy even with live tooling work and complex jobs
on the mills I generally run everything with cad and really dont touch the control unless I need to modify a program.
except for drill and tap cycles I dont use any canned cycles in the mills. one canned cycle I like is on the haas and use it for id work if I need to fix something the g13. I also have it in my post/code generator as well. but no other canned cycles.
Ive runn about every control out there except mazak in 30+ years
Oldwrench
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Off the top that sounded like a disaster story...until I noticed your repairs were covered by the warranty. I could probably accept quite a few bad parts on a new machine provided they took care of it promptly. Never had many issues on any of ours but that's not to say it won't happen someday.
As someone who has ran Mori's, Mazaks, Haas and several others, Haas machines are just fine. That is, in the right application. They wont stand against an Okuma or Mori if you are talking high material removal rates in tougher materials, but they can sure make you a lot of bucks when the job fits it.
none of breakdowns really bothered as shit happens, what does bother me is haas techs are more like parts swappers till they find the problem. hence never correcting the reason the problem occured in the 1st place.
any idiot can replace a broken something, the key is finding why it broke so it doesnt happen again.
Ive had a few hitachi's I used to do some tech work for them on the side as well as training(lathes and mill turns) had a few yci super maxs as well.
those guys were anal about finding the cause of the problem then replace the part.
had a couple of yci tc-2's back in the mid 90's. both bought with in 2 weeks. one went down on the turret 6 months after warrenty due to turret issues.
they flew a guy out from japan to work on it. We became decent friends back then. they replaced the curvex coupleing but it drove him up a wall why it went bad when he came to the states he would call and ask to see the machine and come out take some measurement on the curvex coupling. couple months after that he came over with all brand new shafts bearings curvex coupling etc etc and we replaced it. said he believed they had a bad curvex wether it be machining or bad heat grind material. as the other machine didnt show any signs of being worn.
They also repaired everything on there dime I would have gladly paid for it and was expecting to.
guess were I was really impressed was that they replaced anything that had anything due to the curvex coupling. they almost shipped out a new turret head casting as well. not to mention 3rd year they did a tear down just to make sure everything was good..
we had crashes on that machine and ran it balls out on gear blanks 2 shifts a day5 days a week and sat ams.
thos ycis and the hitachi's were 2 companies that I really liked working with and there machines were topnotch with no problems
Mhajicek
Active member
Any service is only as good as your service technician. They guys at Productivity here in MN seem pretty decent.