Jumping to Fusion---maybe

Litlerob1

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Just wanted some general Fusion vs ______, whatever. I use Mastercam, Gibbs and Esprit right now. But for $500.00 a year, the effective price point is huge.

I have to assume, it can't be as well supported as the big names. But I've had moments on the phone with inhousesolutions where I would've rather cut my own hands off.

Anyway just wanted some opinions.

R
 

Mud

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C'mon in, the water's fine. I bought in for $370 in April (IIRC) because they ran a 30% off sale. I have also had Edgecam for 20+ years, and wanted to migrate away for at least 10 years. $1700/yr for no real improvements to 3/4 axis programming, difficult tech support, and zero code generator support just sucks. There's lots of old bad blood that is too much to go into here, but I felt held hostage to pay support for fear of having an obscure issue that I could not solve without their support, and being forced to pay all back maintenance plus penalties to get going again.

I've been doing new items in fusion for about 6 months and am pleasantly surprised. I built 2 posts myself with free support from Adesk online - that was excellent. Drawing is just weird compared to Sold Edge. It's changing fast, which is both good and bad, I'm reserving judgement until I need to use design more. Mfg is very capable, I picked it up pretty quickly so far and I'm not a cam jock.

I figure if I have to move away from it 5 years from now I'll have gotten so much out of Fusion between now and then that I won't care.

I think support is actually better - there are so many users online you can get lots of free help, and a lot of it is quite knowledgeable. There are also Adesk employees online in their forums.
 

Mhajicek

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There are a few "gotchas" to watch out for. If your internet goes down, or their server is having problems, you may not be able to do anything. You will always be forced to use the latest version, like it or not, and version updates have broken files and functions that had previously worked. Version updates have also moved previously available functions behind "premium" pay tiers. A forced version update could also require that you update your OS or purchase a new computer before being allowed to use the software again. Use of cloud software violates most NDAs.

If none of those are deal breakers for you, go for it.
 

Herding Cats

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I ran Fusion a couple years ago and my only regret about switching to SolidCam is that I didn't do it sooner.

@Mhajicek briefly touches on some of the issues.

Forced up dates where they move things around caused a lot of wasted time for me trying to figure out how to do things that I already knew how to do.

I don't know how it is now but when I ran fusion their focus seemed to be on "fancy" tool paths even though their basic 2d stuff was very lacking. One example was with a contour facing path you could not add loops to the corners to knock down the high spots left from a high feed mill. I also found the 2 axis turning to be lacking.

No plunge milling routines either.

I don't know what your main work load will be but I can tell you for 3D surfacing fusion didn't hold a candle to SolidCam. SC has someting like 40+ 3D tool paths.

Also iMachining is faster with better tool life than adaptive roughing.

Can you still get Fusion for a month rather than a year? Give it a try but I think you will find it lacking compared to what you are using now.

Let us know what you think. My experience is somewhat dated so maybe they have gotten better. Good luck!
 

Litlerob1

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Can you still get Fusion for a month rather than a year? Give it a try but I think you will find it lacking compared to what you are using now.
Yes, they still offer a monthly rate.

Thank you, there's no doubt in my mind that it's not up to snuff with what I use currently.....none. But after the subscriptions, maintenance and PP updates, I'm looking at around $..k difference on the price point per year. So the subsequent question would be-is it worth that much cheese? Can I deal with the "quirks" or inefficiencies of something lesser for that kind of money laundering?

R
 

alphonso

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One of my guys tried Fusion and liked enough to buy it. Before that, he was hand writing most programs using autocad and making toolpaths by making offsets to geometry. Has never gotten the hang of cad side of Edgecam and hasn't been motivated to stick with it.

FWIW, I can draw and program a 2D part in about half the time it takes him to do it in Fusion. And the Fusion post insists on putting crap in the program........ and this is for ordinary Fanuc 18MC, 0M and 0TC controls.

Mud,

I haven't been current on my Edgecam for 10+ years. I just keep on keepin' on. Don't know what will happen when the computer dies and has to be replaced. Suspect that will cost $5K+.
 

Herding Cats

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And the Fusion post insists on putting crap in the program........ and this is for ordinary Fanuc 18MC, 0M and 0TC controls.
This touches on another big thing for me. I want to be able to call or email for a post edit and have it back later that day. Personally I'm not real interested in becoming a post writer. Something just doesn't set well with me when posts come from 3rd parties.

From what I recall
MC doesn't write their own posts
Esprit does their own posts
SC does their own posts
AD doesn't do their own posts
not sure about others

While it's not a huge deal with basic posts, having good post support made a big difference when implementing quirky HPPC and Smooth Interpolation. I'd imagine 5 axes, millturn and stuff like that would be in the same boat.
 

Mud

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FWIW, I can draw and program a 2D part in about half the time it takes him to do it in Fusion. And the Fusion post insists on putting crap in the program........ and this is for ordinary Fanuc 18MC, 0M and 0TC controls.
Part of that might be the feculated drawing tools in fusion. I'm importing solids from Solid Edge and don't normally need to draw in Fusion. When I do draw something in fusion, I'm digging for help to figure out how to do it, and wondering if something is broken. I see awesome fusion creations posted in the FB groups, full of lofting and surfacing, I struggle to draw a line the angle and length I want.
There's a great resource for post help here - https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/hsm-post-processor-forum/bd-p/218 HSM and Fusion use the same posts.
It seems the stock posts all need help. I built 2 with help from the moderators on this forum. I'd post a question late in the evening and get a section of code to insert or change in a reply the next morning. If you post a question with an illustration of what you don't like and want eliminated in the code I'm sure you'll get an answer. There might be posts from others with the same issue there, I learned from reading unrelated posts. The posts are edited with a Javascript editor which isn't impossible to figure out.

I want to be clear that I'm not advocating for Fusion, my stance is it's not as bad as you'd think. For me it makes a lot of sense. I have one machine that has both horizontal and vertical spindles, and a C axis and the vertical head swivels. Fusion will program all that, if probably not world class effectiveness , while Edgecam wanted a $20K+ upgrade to do any of it. And another $5K for the post to even use my 3D Edgecam on it. (And I had no confidence in their ability to write the post). For $370 and some time that I sort of enjoyed I have all of that.
We're still using Edgecam, both for milling and turning, my lathe guy likes it, and my part time programmer is a wiz at it for milling. I've forgotten how to use it long ago. I don't do live tools or surfacing (yet) so don't need exotic programming tools.
 

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I think it really depends on what you want to do with Fusion. I have been using it since the beginning. I use it to model new parts, fixtures, clamps, etc. then machine all those things. Nearly everything is simple aluminum widgets so programming is fairly basic but I do have a 4th axis that I program for. For my short run programs, I don't modify anything in the code. For my long run programs, I modify everything, break it all into subroutines, and strip out every single word that does not need to be there. Fusions stock posts pretty much suck, the one for my Yasnac control didn't even post working code, but simple things are easy to change and you can get help fixing what is beyond simple, it's JavaScript.

I like it and have no inclination to change, ZERO! I love how I can change a dimension or two on a part, regenerate the code, and be ready to make a different part in 2 minutes. I can't imagine having CAD and CAM not tied together seamlessly. The Cloud issues I have not had a problem with but I keep any files I have worked with cached locally for a year, it's a setting in Preferences, and rarely import anything. If my internet is down, or their servers, it doesn't affect creating toolpaths or models, maybe this is not the case for "premium" stuff? Yes new versions can break shit, it has happened to me once, and if you have a file open and it decides to upgrade to a new version that can cause a problem, it has happened to me twice now, but considering I pay $300 a year for Premium, early adopter, I can live with it. Features that go behind a pay wall were in development when they were free, hard to bitch about that. Most of the snivelling and whining I hear about Fusion is because of ignorance or ADs policies or communication fuck ups, not limitations with the software. The cat hearders issues are the most legit I have heard, so as I said, it really depends on what you want to do with the software.

Drawing is fine, just make sure you constrain and dimension it properly. A good drawing is the bedrock of my models and getting them right is absolutely critical !!!!!!!!! I like to be able to go back and modify my models and have them regenerate without breaking apart or fucking up my tool paths. To do this you NEED to understand how Fusion works and get the model created cleanly from the start. If you haphazardly piece it together from chopped up bits you are far more likely to have problems makeing changes later. I know this from experience and have learned my lessons. Like any software it is complex and will take you years to really get to know it well. Most of the limitations I have had with it was me not knowing how to use it or the functions available to do what I wanted.

If you want I have a list of videos I have bookmarked to highlight what functions I have needed but didn't know of or how to use. Things like picking 400 lines to machine a contour, or how to contour at a single Z level but all the lines are at different levels, etc.

Anyway, there's my 2 cents and now it's time to get my dumb ass to work.
 
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Litlerob1

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MC ships with a number of generic posts, that can be adjusted for most purposes with switches. They sub out most post work to Postability, who are really good at what they do.
Maybe I'm out of date. Or different location, but in house solutions did most of my post processor support, for MC. They're really hard to work with, so I learned how to build my own. I'll probably keep Esprit for a while, because of he Mill/Turn machine, but I'm leaning toward the change.

R
 

Mhajicek

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Maybe I'm out of date. Or different location, but in house solutions did most of my post processor support, for MC. They're really hard to work with, so I learned how to build my own. I'll probably keep Esprit for a while, because of he Mill/Turn machine, but I'm leaning toward the change.

R
Both are used. From what I've heard, Postability is much better, and in my experience does a great job and is easy to work with. They did my 5 axis Haas post when I was working at Conventus, and it was pretty bulletproof.
 

Litlerob1

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If you want I have a list of videos I have bookmarked to highlight what functions I have needed but didn't know of.....
Summoning G-coder and Mike1974. Maybe if David posts this, we could pin it somewhere.

R
 

Herding Cats

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Summoning G-coder and Mike1974. Maybe if David posts this, we could pin it somewhere.

R
Start a tips and tricks video thread type thing about it in the Fusion node and I will make it a sticky.

Unfortunately I have been unable to contact Jay in several months. I would like to think he took a vacation but doubt that is the case.......
 

DavidScott

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I haven't forgotten. I looked at my links and they are all most all for sculpting, and several years old. When I get a chance I will try to find some of the more useful ones and post them all in the new thread that HC suggests. It would be nice to organize all the good info in the first thread so users don't have to read all of them, perhaps?
 

Litlerob1

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Unfortunately I have been unable to contact Jay in several months. I would like to think he took a vacation but doubt that is the case.......
He's a busy guy. That dude moves to some pretty exotic locations. Internet might not be ideal. We talked about Chi/com internet issues quite a bit.

R
 

Doug

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He's a busy guy. That dude moves to some pretty exotic locations. Internet might not be ideal. We talked about Chi/com internet issues quite a bit.

R
last post here was about getting Covid.

Have you communicated with Jay since that time ?
 
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