Where are all the RFQ’s

alan speyrer

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Seems odd to me the lack of RFQ’s on this site, as much as I dislike PM, there RFQ section is huge. Although I have only ever gotten a few customers from RFQ’s on PM, and only one customer had turned into repeat business, I guess I wasn’t cheap enough?
 

AJ H

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Looks like PM averages a few RFQs a month? With thousands seeing them. I’d bet your effort is more valuable placed elsewhere.
 

Dualkit

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I got plenty of customers off PM, probably 50-100 over the course of 15 years, all but 3 were one hit wonders. I did get a forth one that was a one hit wonder but a pretty large order spread out over a half year.
 

Spruewell

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I need to find 6 companies that need 500 dollars worth of parts every month.
I would rather have 3 companies needing $3k/week. Too many customers means a lot of relationships to keep track of an maintain. Also can be a problem when they all dump jobs on you at once.
 

Mhajicek

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I would rather have 3 companies needing $3k/week. Too many customers means a lot of relationships to keep track of an maintain. Also can be a problem when they all dump jobs on you at once.
Also sucks when one says they don't need anything for a few months.
 

Spruewell

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Didn’t mean it as an easy answer. There is no easy answer, just work. Making your own product sounds nice, but it can go away too. I’ve experienced that one and am sitting on several thousands of dollars worth of inventory to prove it. It was a good run while it lasted and it more than paid for what is left, but it seems somehow more painful to get rid of than something you make for someone else’s gizmo
 

TeachMePlease

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I hear ya, I have a regular engine lathe, turret lathe, cnc lathe and manual mill.
I believe your question is asking “ what’s my capacity “?
More what's your capability? I order random custom parts that I dream up, custom fixturing, a lot of stuff modified from off the shelf components, etc. Almost everything I order would fit in the palm of one hand.
 

alan speyrer

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More what's your capability? I order random custom parts that I dream up, custom fixturing, a lot of stuff modified from off the shelf components, etc. Almost everything I order would fit in the palm of one hand.
Hardinge dsm 59 turret lathe with 5c collet, with bar feeder.
Milltronics 1540 flat bed cnc lathe, 2.166” spindle bore, 8 station automatic turret, 30” between centers, simple 2axis cnc lathe. Van Norman manual mill, I also do TIG welding of parts when needed.
I really want to find more production work, but I still do short runs of parts everyday.
 

Dualkit

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Didn’t mean it as an easy answer. There is no easy answer, just work. Making your own product sounds nice, but it can go away too. I’ve experienced that one and am sitting on several thousands of dollars worth of inventory to prove it. It was a good run while it lasted and it more than paid for what is left, but it seems somehow more painful to get rid of than something you make for someone else’s gizmo
You have nothing on my Dualkit disaster. I have told this story quite a few times on PM. I fell into selling dual alternator kits when the customer I was making brackets & pulleys for stiffed me out of $30K, and used my money to help bring production in house by getting a Haas lathe, mill and hiring a machinist. He flat out told me I wasn't even close to his largest creditor and said he would file bankruptcy if anyone sued him. The war was on! This was a guy who had a decent income, but was terrible with money and lived way beyond his means.


Knowing little about charging system upgrades and no desire to do a lot of wrenching on cars I poached his installer/tech and we redesigned everything for ease of manufacture and install. I also wanted to focus on volume sales to educated customers to eliminate a lot of the customer service issues and hand holding. So the target customer was limousine builders. The installer had a close contact with a local builder so we had a source of various vehicles for R & D work in exchange for free product.

It was a slam dunk, the only other competition that made an in house product had someone who lacked our design skills and the machinist was nothing more than B grade at best and appeared to just make what he was told, with no input on design improvements. We knew all of this because of their website, showing their manufacturing process among other things. the boasting over nothing was comical.

All our sales were done cold calling and by attending conventions. The good, sales were growing in leaps and bounds, at the peak hitting 23 active customers. The quick growth in the dual kit sales made it impossible to job shop and other product development was put on hold.
Cutting to the chase, most limousines are bought by transportation companies. Limousine use was very common in SoCal at the time fueled by a real estate boom unseen in most parts of the country pre 2008 recession. People were cashing in home equity and living it up. Strip clubs in Las Vegas were hiring limousine companies to attract and transport customers. I once saw a limousine that had an outside jacuzzi, strippers in bikinis would be in it to attract customers, cruising the strip.

The market for limousines started tailing off quickly as the real estate market peaked and then descended, we were steadily gaining market share, but the market was shrinking so fast sales were dropping. Within a year I was down to one active customer and their volume dropped down to next to nothing. There were two customers other still in business, but they switched their business model to police car conversions that did not require our products. 20 customers closed their doors never to return. Today only one of the 23 customers survive making limos. The industry never rebounded, it boomed on a false economy, went bust and stayed busted.

I made the mistake of holding on too long to employees, stocking the shelves with things I wrongly thought I could sell later on with the rebound that never came. I don't even want to think of all the items that went in the dumpster or to the scrap man, and the pallets of alternators
I sold for 25 cents on the wholesale dollar. If I rewatch the game film a couple times, Dualkit ended up being a $400k to $500k mistake.
I had set up machining cells for products and that equipment was no good for a one man job shop, so it had to go, all sold at the height of the recession 30 cents on the dollar for what I paid for it. That was the end of selling my own product.
 

Garwood

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Could you have pivoted into a new, related product?

"Billet" serpentine or timing pulleys? Saginaw PS pump mounting kits for (insert any engine here)? Power steering adapter fittings for Saginaw steering pumps. Steering box rebuild parts like oversize sector shafts and/or bearings/sleeves to fix all the 90's era crap steering boxes (especially Dodge)? York OBA compressor mounts for any engine, especially ones used in offroad and lowrider type vehicles. Dual alternator kits for offroad vehicles that winch often? Dual alternator delete kits for ex-ambulance F-series Ford trucks that guys don't want the extra alternator anymore?Even just simple V belt pulley setups made for the old SBC and BBC motors that are better than the sloppy chinese junk on the market today.

I could keep going...



Every gearhead I know with an old V8 buys those cheap aluminum pulleys on Ebay and then brings them to me to true up and fix the offsets.
 

machinery_e

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Thanks for sharing the Dualkit story again, good cautionary tale.

The jump from job shop to product is tough. The Garwood list of ideas is great, but how will they sell, and how do you get the product in front of the right people? It might end up your shop is going to turn into more of a marketing facility than a manufacturing facility.

I remember one video they had of a one of a kind product not available anywhere. Guys were going crazy saying they wanted one. So I decided to make them! Even with advertising, it was a flop-they sold but not well. In the end, barely covered material costs.

Job shop, you make stuff to spec, and with a good customer, ship and get paid in a short time frame.

Don't get me wrong, I have some products that I make and sell that do good. Right now I see some warning signs in my business-Chinese are coming out with knockoffs on ebay for less than material costs. One I have has fallen down to a small amount of sales-if it didn't go along with the other products I make, it wouldn't be worth making. (Maybe grossing $100 of sales on them a year now?) Might happen to your product too-don't expect it to be forever. Right now, with the environment in the machine shop world/labor shortage, I'm transitioning more into job shop work. The key is having a good customer and one that is eager to pay.
 

Garwood

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Thanks for sharing the Dualkit story again, good cautionary tale.

The jump from job shop to product is tough. The Garwood list of ideas is great, but how will they sell, and how do you get the product in front of the right people? It might end up your shop is going to turn into more of a marketing facility than a manufacturing facility.
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The failed product endeavor sagas often have a similarity- Limited innovation and/or perseverance. If a product fails you make another. If that fails you make another. Find something that sticks, look at what you did to make it work and apply that same tactic to other things. None of my flop products are failures. They all taught me things. Very often a product that doesn't work out has elements about it that can be recycled into something else. That's how it has always worked for me.

As my Finnish mom would say- Sisu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu

Best way to motivate a Fin is tell them they can't achieve something. I think that's a good personality trait to have in business.
 

TeachMePlease

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The failed product endeavor sagas often have a similarity- Limited innovation and/or perseverance. If a product fails you make another. If that fails you make another. Find something that sticks, look at what you did to make it work and apply that same tactic to other things. None of my flop products are failures. They all taught me things. Very often a product that doesn't work out has elements about it that can be recycled into something else. That's how it has always worked for me.

As my Finnish mom would say- Sisu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu

Best way to motivate a Fin is tell them they can't achieve something. I think that's a good personality trait to have in business.
Well, now I know what word I'm gonna throw at my Fin boss tomorrow morning. Man does that describe him.
 

Garwood

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Well, now I know what word I'm gonna throw at my Fin boss tomorrow morning. Man does that describe him.
I'll never forget my Finnish great great uncle telling 5 year old me the story of how him and another guy where pissing on their machine gun to keep it from melting as the Japs were charging their trench in WWII. He explained how the japs used something like duct tape to hold their bodies together from the machine gun fire so they could get close enough to heave a grenade.

He said those Japs had some strong fucking Sisu.
 
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