Opinions on Kitamura Mycenter 5X?

[Vancbiker]

Similar to Kitamuras earlier design which we used to refer to as the “skeet thrower”. That one did kind of a tilt-a-whirl movement to get the tool from the magazine to the wait position. Get a bit gummy with coolant residue and it could chuck a tool a surprising distance.

Pretty common for cylinder sensors to be a reed switch that actuates when a magnet embedded in the piston passes by. Sometimes those get flaky but not too common. Same as you suspect, I think twisted up wiring is the trouble.

 

[Garwood]

I'm liking this Kitamura. It's got some quirks and needs a lot of little TLC things, but I think it's a huge upgrade from the big Mori I had before for the work I do.

10K RPM 50 taper is pretty awesome. This machine is really quiet. The loudest thing on it is the air exhausting from the counterbalance on a Z negative move. There is supposed to be a retention spring issue, but I honestly can't tell anything's wrong. I haven't given it to her yet, but I've run some 200 IPM 10K RPM full slotting toolpaths with a 3/4" endmill and it was almost silent sans the sound of chips hitting. Haven't noticed the load meter go past 40% so far, so that's neat I guess.

I bought a bunch of Jergens 18mm expanding fixture keys so I can retrofit all my old subplate fixtures that use .500 dowel pins to work in the T-slots on this machine. I'll have a pretty good idea of how accurate it is after that is all done. It seems sub .001" is no problem for location and interpolating, but the jobs I've done so far are just one off and pretty wide open.

I haven't tore into the skeet thrower arm sensors yet, the arm has been working fine since I pulled the cover off it so I'm pretty sure it's got to be the wiring. The wires lay in a different place with the cover removed.

Early on I was concerned about the toolchanger speed. It isn't bad at all. The Kitamura stages the next tool in the wait pocket so it's only a couple second tool change. It's also got some spiffy speed stuff like you can put G28Z.0 and M6 on the same line and it drops the wait pocket and orients on it's way up and swings the arm as soon as it hits Z0.

 

[Vancbiker]

.........It's also got some spiffy speed stuff like you can put G28Z.0 and M6 on the same line and it drops the wait pocket and orients on it's way up and swings the arm as soon as it hits Z0.

That's a nice touch in the PMC ladder program.

 

[Herding Cats]

It's also got some spiffy speed stuff like you can put G28Z.0 and M6 on the same line and it drops the wait pocket and orients on it's way up and swings the arm as soon as it hits Z0.

Do you even need to send Z home or is that part of M6 already?

 

[Garwood]

The book says to put m6 on the g28z0. Line, so thats what i did. I'll try just an m6 and see what it does.

 

[Garwood]

I never had a machine that does sidewall finishes this nice in aluminum before. It's like glass.

 

[Garwood]

As this Kitamura is on it's 2nd day of a production job in a 100 degree shop I thought an update was in order.

This mill is a pretty great machine. God damn is it accurate and fast.

Things I've figured out-

The Cat50 tools have to be clocked a certain way. Never had a cat machine that cared so didn't know it was a thing. If you load a tool backwards it will, at some random time, crash the toolchanger transfer arm.

Can't use tool 0 to get 31 tools. If you try to put tool 0 in the spindle and load the magazine it thinks the tool transfer arm is empty and will doublestack tools in the magazine.

On RPC power this machine HATES power that is not exactly 235 volts. Over 235 and it alarms out on regen sporadically. A few volts less than 235 and it undervolt alarms on spindle accel. My line power is usually 245-255, so I have it on a transformer to step it down to 235, but when it's 100 degrees and everyones running their AC like today the power is 235 so I unhooked the transformer and it's running balls out perfectly.

I still have to fix some coolant leaks, like the rubber flaps that direct chips and coolant into the conveyor. They're trashed.

The spindle gearbox still leaks oil, mostly when the machine sits, not while running.

The rotary union is trashed so I don't use the TSC yet. It blows full coolant pressure out the tattle tail tube so I don't think it's a great idea to use it.

M51 through spindle air works amazing. Though I need to re-plumb the air to the spindle on it's own dedicated line. It gets low air alarms sometimes when it's running.

The chip conveyors jambed up. The nose wheel is stuck. That doesn't look like fun to fix.

I need to hook up the chip washdown. The hoses rotted off.

Overall, I'd recommend one of these machines if you like going at stuff with 50 taper. The spindle is phenomenal. I'm hanging a lot of tools out 8+" and it will flat get after it and it's incredibly silent.

 

[Garwood]

Wiring in some comms stuff on this Kitamura w/16i and discovered there's a battery in here on the control!

Is this a change it once a year battery like other Fanuc stuff or is it different?

 

[Vancbiker]

This is the battery that holds the parameter and CNC data (programs, offsets,etc.) memory. They are good for a few years at least. As long as you stay aware of the BAT alert that pops up at the bottom of the display when it's nearing end of life, you might find it will go 7-10 years.

 

[Garwood]

How fast would you guys feed tools with a machine like this? Like what is reasonable without beating the thrust bearings out of it?

I ask because I'm roughing these pockets about 8"x10" in 6061 with a constant engagement mastercam toolpath and I keep cranking the feed up and it keeps keeping up. I'm running a 5/8" 3 fl corncob rougher .200" width of cut, .800" loc at 10K RPM. It's a hell of a chunk of code that cam spit out and I thought it was kind of studdering at 100 IPM, but then I cranked it to 250 IPM, then 400 IPM and it's not studdering, it just slows down about 20% in the sharper corners. It just keeps taking it and I'm barely 40% spindle load.

I don't need to go any faster at this time. But The machine says it'll do 1100 IPM. Do you just give her every inch of it or do you hold some back?

 

[DavidScott]

A lot depends on how it sounds IMO. If you can keep up with loading then let er rip.

 

[lobust]

Crank it up as high as the cutter/workholding/load meter will allow and use G5.1 to smooth it out as necessary.

The bigger 50 taper machines I have run max out around 15-20m/min feed, never had any problems making them do it…

 

[Herding Cats]

When programming large aluminum parts I will often program 1170 ipm and let G05 determine how fast the machine can go.

I have a bunch of aluminum parts coming up that will start as 30ish pound blocks and finish between 2-3 pounds. It's fun at first, then a real pain in the ass cause of the ridiculous volume of chips created.

In the coming weeks I was going to post about my plans to gun drill them with an angle head but maybe I'll throw in some high speed roughing with HPCC and smooth interpolation just for fun. I have lots of high end aluminum tooling I never get to use so it should be fun. Finally get to bust out the Rob Jack end mills

 

[Mud]

I have a bunch of aluminum parts coming up that will start as 30ish pound blocks and finish between 2-3 pounds. It's fun at first, then a real pain in the ass cause of the ridiculous volume of chips created.

I can only imagine. Show us a photo when you do. I weighed some dense milling chips and figured out they took up 10X the volume of the solid bar stock

 

[lobust]

When programming large aluminum parts I will often program 1170 ipm and let G05 determine how fast the machine can go.

I have a bunch of aluminum parts coming up that will start as 30ish pound blocks and finish between 2-3 pounds. It's fun at first, then a real pain in the ass cause of the ridiculous volume of chips created.

In the coming weeks I was going to post about my plans to gun drill them with an angle head but maybe I'll throw in some high speed roughing with HPCC and smooth interpolation just for fun. I have lots of high end aluminum tooling I never get to use so it should be fun. Finally get to bust out the Rob Jack end mills

At my old place I did a lot of large aluminium parts with 80+% material removal (large load cells, ROV parts that were converted from fabrications etc) - you are very right about the fun wearing off when you have to deal with the chip management...

Assume you have some form of tilted plane rotation on your control for that angle head? If not I have a solution that I posted about on here long ago...

 

[Herding Cats]

Assume you have some form of tilted plane rotation on your control for that angle head? If not I have a solution that I posted about on here long ago...

I'm not sure but if not I'm sure I could enable the option. But I don't think I need it as I planned to post the code out long hand rather than a cycle since I'll probably run the drill in reverse at 100 rpm till it is collared in the pilot hole.

I'll take a look at your thread and probably start a new one pretty soon while I'm ordering a angle head and rotary union. I'm also going to set up a filter and pressure washer to supply coolant to the gun drill.

 

[Vancbiker]

And Davis we built some 2 cubic yard tip bins when we got the MAG1. That got you about 2 hours run time between dumps when roughing.

 

[lobust]

I'm not sure but if not I'm sure I could enable the option. But I don't think I need it as I planned to post the code out long hand rather than a cycle since I'll probably run the drill in reverse at 100 rpm till it is collared in the pilot hole.

I'll take a look at your thread and probably start a new one pretty soon while I'm ordering a angle head and rotary union. I'm also going to set up a filter and pressure washer to supply coolant to the gun drill.

If you're buying new, I strongly recommend you get one with some kind of dead length quick change on the output rather than a plain collet, so that you can swap out tools without losing your length, after you've painstakingly dialled in your angles...

This lets you spot,drill,tap etc. without having to reset anything which can be an absolute godsend.

Mine used (don't have it anymore ): ) the Schaublin ECR system on the output which is an excellent face, taper, and torque drive modification of ER.

 

[Barbter]

Yes +1 to some sort of lookahead running (G5/G05.1 etc) rather than banging the machine to death on axis reversals.
Ref the tons of swarf - corn cobbs were always my go-to. Either MAFord type 134 or latterly the Garr roughers (can't remember the number but they had a finer tooth and more length options - both LOC and O/A length) - and 14mm diameter seemed the sweet spot for me.
But that was for #30 (BBT) and #40 machines, and the type of work we made (thinwall electrical enclosures).
The "noise" was a lot less with the 14mm than the 16mm diameter - more flute length in contact because a smaller diameter - but yes, we would run out of feed control before we'd run out of tool!
The "mincemeat" that the corncobs would make, would allow the machines with no conveyors, to run for much longer before needing digging out. And the obvious - parts came out overall better (flatter etc), because far lower cutting forces so far less stress being induced into the component with this style of cutter.
And also the toolpath style - the trochoidal style (low force) cutting compared to full slotting old school.

 

[Garwood]

G5, G5.1?

These are new to me.

I have noticed with the corncobs I have to get the load up to atleast 30% otherwise the thin chips are a fucking nightmare.

I'm doing about a yard of chips every 3 hours.